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Talk:Reffet
Anyone up for Category:Viceroys? I can only think of two: This dude and Prince Arthur Albert, 1st Duke of Connaught and Strathearn. But there HAS to be more than that! Turtle Fan 19:27, April 6, 2011 (UTC) :Lord Halifax and Antonio de Mendoza make it four. I think if we did a more thorough job of combing, we could dredge up a couple more. TR 20:42, April 6, 2011 (UTC) ::Infanta Isabella of Spain and Albert VII, Archduke of Austria? Turtle Fan 00:19, April 7, 2011 (UTC) :::Albert was of Portugal. Isabella was simply the governor of the Spanish Netherlands. ::Oh, and aren't a satrap and a viceroy pretty much the same thing? Turtle Fan 00:22, April 7, 2011 (UTC) :::Insofar as they are types of governors (more or less), I suppose so. :::That may be the stumbling block to a "viceroy" category. The name can be used fairly interchangeably with terms like "Governor-general" or "colonial general", etc. Carving out the category may be making a distinction without a difference. TR 00:44, April 7, 2011 (UTC) ::::I've done a little research. In the British Empire a Governor-General was a Viceroy. In the Commonwealth there's a distinction, but it appears to be very slight, and was slighter still when Arthur Albert was G-G of Canada, in which country the adjectivial form of G-G is and has always been "viceregal." (Maybe ML4E and/or Nelg could give us some clarification on exactly what the distinction is?) The Lieutenants Governor of the provinces of Canada match the definition of viceroy rather better than the G-G does, but why I couldn't tell you. ::::Outside Britain (which is where we'd get most of our viceroys) a viceroy is an official who governs a nation, province, or colony (preferably a remote one) on behalf of a monarch. He answers directly to the monarch, not to Parliaments or privy councils or anything like that; or if he does, it's purely at monarchical prerogative. (In practice the Viceroys of India were under standing orders to report to the Secretary of State for India, who in turn was responsible to the PM.) The direct grant of personal monarchical authority differentiates a viceroy from other forms of governor. He differs from a regent in two ways: He does have to take orders from the monarch, and can be dismissed at the monarch's pleasure (assuming the monarch plays an active role in government at all; I'm not sure whether, for instance, Elizabeth could send David Johnston packing against the wishes of the Canadian Parliament. I am sure she wouldn't bother doing so if she could.) Also, if I'm gathering correctly, a viceroy has responsibility for only part of a kingdom/empire/commonwealth; the monarch maintains direct control elsewhere in the realm(s). ::::As far as I'm able to determine, the political role of a satrap makes it pretty much identical with that of a viceroy, the only difference being a Persian etymology rather than a Latin/French one. However, along the way it's acquired a much dirtier connotation than viceroy, something like "Grand Vizier" to "Chancellor" or "Generalissimo" to "Marshal." However, Duke Brown may not qualify because we see him exercising authority independent of that granted by Geoffrey, or at least in a way that goes against Geoffrey's orders. However, he may qualify after all because he was appointed by Geoffrey, whereas Joe Brown's governorship of Georgia was completely independent of Davis's presidency. Davis would have dismissed Brown in a New York minute if he'd had the chance, and Brown could never have pulled a half the shit he did or a tenth the shit he tried if he'd been responsible to Davis directly. As elsewhere in the series, Turtledove's misguided attempts to give republican and monarchical institutions a 1:1 correspondence don't work, and he tries to spackle over them by being intentionally vague with regards to Detina's constitution. It worked; the only stuff we can call him on on the Inconsistencies page are superficialities like Jeb the Steward/Jeb the Beauty. ::::But anyway, we can rule out any governor who governs on behalf of a republic or a dictatorship or anything else that's not a hereditary monarchy. We can rule out military governors, I believe; notice that when Straha brought his no-confidence vote, Atvar said he was "as close as the Race on Tosev 3 had to a viceroy," as opposed to being a viceroy de jure. We can rule out governors of a territory that is not a distinct political entity, whether that entity is at the same level as the entity which created it (Canada to the UK) or at a lower level (Tosev 3 to Home, at least as the Lizards would like it to be). We can rule out any official who is merely the lackey of a much stronger king, but who maintains an authority that is technically independent of the boss's, as Beornwulf's role relative to Swemmel was clearly shaping up to be. (One secondary defintion of "satrap" covers that dynamic, however.) We can rule in anyone who had "Viceroy" as an official title, whether in whole or in part ("Viceroy and Governor-General" was a common one in the 1930s and 1940s as the British Empire took its last bow before morphing into the Commonwealth.) Beyond that, I think we'll need to decide on an ad hoc basis. ::::Oh, and Charles Cornwallis was a viceroy, too; it was part of his title. See, thinking of them is getting easier. Turtle Fan 01:59, April 7, 2011 (UTC)